Healthcare technology expert David Niewolny introduces RTI Connext 6 - the first medical-grade connectivity framework. Learn how Connext 6 is helping healthcare companies lower IIoT system costs, enhance security and decrease time to market.
In Episode 33 of The Connext Podcast:
- [2:04] The healthcare industry’s current outlook
- [5:52] The data connectivity challenge
- [15:18] Comparing medical imaging to an autonomous vehicle
- [19:38] How does Connext DDS work?
- [23:07] Announcing Connext 6 - the first medical-grade connectivity framework
- [31:35] Where do you see the industry going in the next 5 - 15 years?
- [Blog] HIMSS19 and the Future of Connected Healthcare
- [Datasheet] RTI in Healthcare
- [Press Release] RTI Announces the First Medical-Grade Connectivity Framework
- [Video] RTI Connext DDS: Enabling the Future for Connected Healthcare
- [Webinar] Are You Ready for The IoT? Designing a Data-Centric Medical Device
- [Webpage] Healthcare & Medical
Steven Onzo: Welcome to another episode of the Connext podcast. I'm Steven Onzo, your host, and I'm here today with David Niewolny, Market Development Director of the Healthcare Market for RTI. David, thanks for stopping by.
David Niewolny: Thanks for having me Steven.
Steven Onzo: Absolutely. We have a lot of exciting things we want to talk about today. But in order to kick things off, can you tell me a little bit about yourself and what you do here at RTI?
David Niewolny: Yeah, for sure. I've actually been in the embedded space, specifically the embedded connectivity space for about 18 years. I started my career off in hardware, and more specifically there in semiconductors. I started there, and really about five to...I think it was actually year seven into my career, took a hard look and I really loved technology, but at the same time, you really do get something out of helping people and looking at different technologies that can really make a difference for the next 10, 20, 30 years.
Definitely seemed at that time, which was the 2006-2007 timeframe, that healthcare and healthcare technology was really a great place to be. I think the market was ripe for disruption and we had a nice opportunity to take a look at that market. That's really what I focused on for, we'll say the second half of my career. The last 11 years has been focused directly on healthcare technology. Of those 11 years, nine of them were spent at Freescale and NXP, working at really selling, marketing and some strategy product development around connectivity chips specifically for the healthcare and medical customers.
One of the higher level trends that we saw in that space was the pervasive of connectivity and the need for connectivity software, which is really what indirectly brought me to RTI roughly two years ago.
[2:04] The healthcare industry’s current outlook
Steven Onzo: So you have a lot of experience in healthcare, you're a true subject matter expert, so let's start with the basics. Healthcare has been an industry facing some significant challenges over the past few years trying to balance patient care with cutting costs. What is the current outlook? What's keeping these hospital administrators up at night?
David Niewolny: Well, Steven, it is an interesting problem. I mentioned I've been focused on healthcare technology for 11 years, and I think a lot of the same driving factors that cause me to pivot my career then are honestly still apparent and I think have even gotten worse today. Really, the two high-level mega-trends is, the great news is, we're all living longer. But I think by living longer we're putting more stress on our healthcare system. By putting more stress on our healthcare system, the costs are continually going up, and I think these providers are really in the tough spot of trying to run an efficient business in a situation where they're needing to provide more care.
They are trying to adopt new technologies, and unfortunately those new technologies are really just costing more without providing a lot of the efficiencies I think that they expected and promised. I can tell you, being a part of the industry for as long as I have, I, even myself, kind of made the mistake of looking at connectivity in general and thinking that that would be the savior for the healthcare market.
I realized that just connecting things isn't gonna solve all the problems. Once you connect, you really open up a whole new set of problems which is some complexity in terms of systems and systems networks. In some ways you've actually exposed some new and interesting security concerns and considerations. And a lot of us, we all have WiFi routers, we've all got Bluetooth devices and we realize that sometimes even wired and wireless networking isn't a hundred percent failsafe.
How can you actually run a hospital, a connected hospital, that is not up a hundred percent of the time? A network goes down in a hospital environment, and I mean, really people's lives are at risk. Yeah. It's just a really interesting dilemma. High healthcare costs, providers trying to solve the problem through technology, really just increasing costs without making that significant improvement in the quality of patient care.
One data point that I think always hits home with most folks is, when you start talking about leading cause of death. I think everybody thinks of cardiac disease and cancer. You rarely think of preventable medical error as something that you could die of. Unfortunately, that is the case. It's one of those cases that I think provides a good case for connectivity systems and systems of connectivity in terms of making a lot of this technology work together.
All of that said, you have a lot more medical devices. You have a lot of connected medical devices. I mentioned that you do have some challenges with that. But at the end of the day, having access to more data is going to be better. And I think that's really what we're all trying to strive for in this industry is getting access to data from more devices and being able to make sense of that. Unfortunately one of the issues is just interoperability.
You have a bunch of devices from different vendors, actually different year classes from different vendors, all with different data models, all with different connectivity frameworks. And with that, you don't have that larger systems in systems or platform framework to be making decisions off of.
A lot of challenges for these healthcare CIOs.
[5:52] The data connectivity challenge
Steven Onzo: So essentially this is a data connectivity challenge, but in highly complex, high-stakes environment?
David Niewolny: Yeah. I mean, that's really exactly what it is. It breaks down to data and hospital administrators, clinicians, nurses. Everybody wants access to more data, but then I think the next piece is, once you get access to more data, you soon realize you can get inundated with too much. So you need the data to make decisions but how do you make that more efficient? That's really where I think one of the buzzwords in the industry, you talk about AI, that's really where that comes into play. But that's where AI needs to be used, really in the right context. It needs to be used with the right data.
I think another piece that I think is well-known just throughout the industry, maybe not well-known outside, is, there's a lot of focus on the electronic medical record and publishing data into electronic medical record and then doing some sort of analytics on that. The short of it is, the electronic medical record is a good start. Yes, there is some data there, but that was designed much more for a billing tool than it was for a device to actually make patient decisions off of.
Going into the garbage in, garbage out model, running AI on a tool that wasn't designed to be used as a clinical tool may not be the best system. Having data connectivity in terms of near-patient data is really something I think the entire industry's striving for.
Steven Onzo: And this really highlights the point that you were talking about, where you can have these systems connected, but it's really what you do with the data once they're connected in terms of monitoring and optimizing, maybe going into AI and autonomy after that, even, is truly where it benefits the most.
David Niewolny: Exactly. I think the key today is in the industry you have a lot of major medical device companies, as well as a group of companies that I guess loosely are called MDDS vendors, or medical device data systems. These folks really, today, are striving and working on platforms that not only connect their devices but also provide an ecosystem for different applications to live on top of.
I really think that's something that we've seen in, honestly, a bunch of other industries, are these cross-vendor platforms that really allow the apps and app world to be expanded upon.
Steven Onzo: I want to take this opportunity to talk a little bit about how RTI fits in this. What is RTI doing to help customers navigate these data connectivity challenges?
David Niewolny: Well, it's definitely one of the great things about RTI is I think we're right in the middle of these data connectivity challenges trying to help our customers.
I mentioned, I think we although connectivity was gonna be the savior and at the end of the day it ended up really just introducing some new challenges and some new issues. A lot of those around reliability of the network, security of the network. Interoperability between the medical devices. And I think that's where RTI comes in with a connectivity framework that really solves a lot of those problems, or really just addresses a lot of those challenges for our customers.
The real message that we have to the industry is, "Don't go reinvent the wheel." In a lot of cases the folks that we're talking to and really selling our core product, Connext, to, these folks are medical device companies. I mean, their core business is medical device. It's the analytics. They know, they live, breathe patient data. They understand the patient, they understand the clinician's needs. And what I just mentioned is this data connectivity challenge.
Why should these companies be forced to use their precious engineering resources to built out these connectivity frameworks and connectivity resources when you have companies like RTI that have essentially built something that is what we consider medical grade. It's a medical grade connectivity framework specifically for these medical devices.
Steven Onzo: The topic of connected healthcare, healthcare IoT, it's getting a lot of attention now. What do you think? Is this something that's the next generation will benefit from, or is this something that's actually starting to be implemented today?
David Niewolny: You've got different variations, I think. I think healthcare has always been, I think rightly so, slower to adopt brand-new technologies. They like to have it tried-and-true in other industries. When most people think of the IoT today, it is very, I'd call it cloud-centric.
Cloud-centric is, kind of going back to what I mentioned, is, yes, you might publish some patient information into an electronic medical record. That may be in the cloud, that may actually be on prem. Kind of going back to healthcare's slower moving, a lot of them are still using on-prem data centers. Some of the more forward-looking ones are moving to the cloud. But you really haven't got to what I'm considering the Holy Grail of the Internet of Things, is taking everything back from this central cloud compute into more of an edge computing type architecture.
That's really, I think, where all industries, healthcare included, are really gonna reap the benefits and the efficiencies of the healthcare IoT. That's really, squarely, where RTI and Connext is positioned to play. Yes, you can use a Connext DDS databus in the cloud, and I'll explain that a little bit later. But its ideal use case is near-patient data, edge computing and laying that foundation for AI.
Slightly a long-winded answer there, but I think at the end of the day, connected healthcare is going to be an evolution. Some of it is happening today, but I really think the biggest benefit is somewhere in the order of 5 to 10 years out.
Steven Onzo: It seems that healthcare industries have this, "If it's not broken, don't fix it", because we are talking about people's lives. And maybe this has been working for a long time, and I don't wanna try something new on this patient, because it's worked in the past. But it seems like in the next. A couple years, but we will take that leap. And there is definitely room for improvement there.
David Niewolny: For sure, and healthcare in United States and some of the other markets, I mean, it's still, it is a business. And I think we're just now getting to a point where yes, I think, healthcare in general has been slow to move on these things, but now we do have this kind of looming cost problem that it's time to go utilize really some of the technology tools that have been embraced by a bunch of other industries and bring that into healthcare to help really just drive down costs. And hopefully at the same time, improve patient care.
Steven Onzo: Well, within healthcare, what other areas in healthcare are benefiting from pervasive networking?
David Niewolny: There's actually quite a few. Obviously, for me, the connected healthcare movement and healthcare IoT is the biggest one that applies to all medical devices in the entire healthcare system, but when you break that down a little bit just in terms of high performance networking, or high performance connectivity frameworks, really we're seeing those not only in these large scale healthcare IoT systems, but even as a single medical device gets more complex and has higher performance, higher security, higher reliability type requirements.
And those couple areas are really throughout medical imaging, so x-rays, CT scans, MRIs, and there's actually some really cool products on roadmaps out there in the future where you're really fusing images from all three of those and bringing them together into a singular view. Or taking multiple views and creating 3D images. So again, a lot of really new features, new product requirements that are driving this need for a medical grade connectivity framework like DDS.
I think another area is medical robotics, which those of you that are familiar with RTI in other industries, I mean that was really kind of the foundation of Connext in general. I mean, it was a robotics connectivity framework and architecture, and now you're seeing more and more medical robotics applications ranging from probably the most widely used surgical robots like a da Vinci system. That thing's probably the one that's most well known in the industry, but there's a wide variety of others, all the way down to things that you might not even consider a robot but like laboratory automation.
I mean, those are literally fully autonomous systems, which is exactly where a high performance connectivity framework works very nicely, and then another area that I think is just emerging and it kinda aligns very nicely with the healthcare IoT is, the medical simulation market. I think in terms of training, there's a lot of industries that are really embracing simulation and training and doing that not on patients and actually doing it in a simulated environment. And that's another area where I think a lot of the benefits of having a secure, real-time, interoperable network to create this kind of system of systems for some of these more complex medical simulation projects.
So again, long winded answer, but I think there's short stories. There's a lot of different areas as these products get much more complex, where something like Connext DDS can benefit.
[15:18] Comparing medical imaging to an autonomous vehicle
Steven Onzo: And I wanna go back to imaging real quick, and just ask you, can this sort of technology be compared to an autonomous vehicle where we're taking LiDAR, RADAR, camera and fusing these together to get a better coherent view of the environment around it? Is that kind of what we're doing with imaging? Taking all of these applications just to get a better sense of what its environment is?
David Niewolny: That's actually a great question, and I'm gonna answer this a couple ways. I think you're keen to pick up on the imaging piece mainly because you look at the different sensors that are coming in an autonomous vehicle, and that's exactly what you're doing in the imaging application is taking in a bunch of sensor data. And then recreating that image, but I'd like to actually take that a little bit larger thought and think of...you know, I liken the autonomous car almost to a patient room in a hospital in a IoT connectivity type applications.
So think of that patient room has multiple sensors in terms of a patient monitor, a ventilator, respirator, probably multiple infusion pumps. All of those things now communicating together and really working as one, which is exactly what that autonomous vehicle is doing, taking in a bunch of sensor data, and actually making real-time decisions.
So I don't think we're quite there in healthcare, but my vision would be is, step one get the data. Step two, start putting in clinical decisions support, but in theory, if we can drive a car taking in sensor data making split second decisions, there's really no reason we shouldn't be doing that same sort of thing within a hospital room. There's no reason we shouldn't be controlling, potentially, autonomously controlling infusion pumps via data from that patient monitor.
So the nice thing is, the technology is there, and it's being developed. Honestly, the autonomous vehicle space is one that we're staying very, very close with just because a lot of the challenges that they're facing and they're going to navigate, I do believe, are going to pave the way for a much smoother transition into connected healthcare.
Steven Onzo: It makes sense. That's an exciting comparison. I've read that the average hospital room has 10 to 15 devices. In a 500 bed hospital, that could be about 7,500 devices all spewing out information that, for the most part, can be ignored. How does Connext DDS help the healthcare providers on that ward? And even more importantly, how does it help the patient?
David Niewolny: I think it almost comes full circle. I think it really ends up helping the provider, which in turn ends up helping the patient. You have a provider that can really focus more on that patient. That patient's gonna get a higher level of care. I think the first thing that comes to mind in terms of Connext DDS, how does it actually help is, putting some context, first and foremost, to alarms. I mean, it sounds like a really basic concept, but in a hospital, if you go there, you're gonna hear something alarming all the time.
Or at least see something maybe looking like it should be alarming, like flashing, but that's because really 95% of all the alarms are false alarms, which then completely desensitizes any of the clinicians to actually using the alarms, which then potentially puts the patient at higher risk. And really the reason for those false alarms is the inability for all of the devices in a patient room to communicate with each other. They're essentially all set up, one dimensional, looking at the specific limits for their device rather than, to me, taking in all of the data from that patient and coming up with a real clinical decision based on more data than just one singular data point, and then having an alarm per every single device.
So providing that interoperability. Providing that platform for all of these devices or sensors within that room to talk is really what provides that foundation for clinical decision support and autonomy. It's almost like creating a new medical device out of all of the medical devices in that patient room in that hospital, in that hospital network. So it's, to me, we'll get a little bit more into how we do that in terms of technology, but it's, to me, one of the most exciting things about Connext.
[19:38] How does Connext DDS work?
Steven Onzo: So I wanna take this opportunity to get a little bit technical and talk about the technology, specifically about Connext DDS. Can you tell us about Connext DDS? What it is specifically? And how it works in terms of data centricity and interoperability?
David Niewolny: Yeah, I think that's a perfect transition to that. So Connext is the core product that our RTI provides. I mentioned it's a connectivity framework, and specifically in the area of healthcare. We like to use the terminology of medical-grade connectivity framework. Based on top of the OMG Data Distribution Service Standard, so that's an open standard, and DDS just as a foundational technology is what really allows all of the connected components of a complex system, in this case an IoT system, work as a single integrated solution.
And I think I mentioned a couple times exactly what that looks like. You know, multiple devices within a hospital room all really coming together, sharing their data with an application that can do either autonomous support or clinical decision support, and it does that by sharing the data in real-time very reliably, securely, and in a syntactically interoperable format.
So we mentioned interoperability a couple times, and that is one of the key pieces. And looking at this as a foundational technology, we've looked at a bunch of off the shelf connectivity frameworks and software specifically in this space, and it's safe to say that RTI Connext is really the only one that meets all of the needs of mission critical type applications where literally people die if data does not arrive on time where it needs to. People could die if that system gets hacked in any way, shape, or form.
The interoperable format and the interoperability is really just what provides these medical device manufacturers a platform for connecting a variety of devices to generate these systems and systems of systems. So again, it's a fantastic technology, and maybe take this one level deeper, how exactly does it operate? We'll take a hospital room for an example, but think of a hospital room where you now have a shared data space for every device in that hospital room.
So the data can be really transferred from any device to another device in real-time. I mean, this is, when I say real-time, I mean like embedded real-time. This is like millisecond type real-time. So it's really this shared data space ends up really operating like a database for future data rather than a database for data that's already existed and having to go send a message and actually request that data.
So what you end up getting is, you get this shared data space. You have no single points failure. You have a high level of security around that data, specifically by data type that's being output from each of these devices. So you can really limit any sort of effect to your performance. At the same time, create a very reliable, highly secure system. So at the end of the day, you have any devices that are on that data bus, all getting all of the data they need, exactly when they need it, and that's really what you need to provide that foundation for a platform and a foundation for AI and autonomous systems.
[23:07] Announcing Connext 6 - the first medical-grade connectivity framework
Steven Onzo: This is actually a good segue because RTI has announced Connext 6, our latest product release with features that will benefit the healthcare industry in particular. Can you tell me about this release and what it offers?
David Niewolny: Yeah, so Connext 6 is really just building off a foundation of the RTI Connext products that we've had in the market for years, specifically for mission critical type connectivity, but this one specifically, we captured a lot of the requests and requirements from the medical device community and around some of their key pain points. And we just mentioned initially, security. I think that is one area that we put some additional focus on in the previous release of Connext, but then also, expanded on in terms of Connext 6. So some enhanced security features.
I think one that, it really gets the attention of a lot of the medical device communities. The fact that we made some improvements on top of what we already had to architect the solution specifically for regulatory approval. And that's really why we call this a medical grade connectivity. So in our prior generations, I mean, we've already been designed into a number of FDA cleared devices. IEC 62304, which is really the specific IEC specification that designates exactly how you build and test your commercial off the shelf software. We do treat...or our customers do treat that as SOUP, or software of unknown pedigree or providence. And what we provide to those customers is a very robust quality management process, a quality development manual, development process diagrams, as well as any sort of requested test data. And we do support on site audits from both our customers as well as the FDA. So it truly is something that is what we consider medical grade connectivity framework. Has been used in these medical devices. And really put a lot of effort into creating a very robust offering there.
And the last piece is product longevity. I think that's something that's gonna be exceptionally key. And I don't think I've stressed on it enough here. As we talked about these connectivity frameworks, we also talked about just healthcare in general being, we'll say, less of an appetite for change and risk. Don't risk anything if you don't necessarily have to. Connectivity framework decisions, whether they're part of a healthcare IoT, or part of a complex medical device are generally made in the medical device community once every 10, 15, maybe even 20 years. You need to have a fundamental shift in the market to make that change or drive that change. And the last thing you want to do is completely rewrite something as detailed as your data model. And one of the features we put into Connext 6 is expanded our extensible types, which really allows a consistent expansion of your data model. So as more data becomes available, you can add to that data model and it stays backwards compatible with your previous devices. So as these customers adopt DDS and then come up with their own data model, they now don't have to worry about new features or new sensors becoming available and not being backwards compatible. They now have that ability to be backwards compatible, which allows them to really standardize in this connectivity framework as they would like for the next 10, 15, 20 years.
Steven Onzo: I know we touched a little bit about interoperability when we were talking about the technology, but I wanted to ask you how does Connext DDS tie into other operations?
David Niewolny: Really, it breaks down into a concept I mentioned a little bit earlier in terms of platforms of platforms. It's kind of been interesting in my two years now at RTI and seeing the different use cases. Fundamentally, Connext as a connectivity framework ends up being this kind of underlying data connectivity platform for a larger scale healthcare IoT platform, which then can tie into not only patient data, but you talk about operations. It can also provide a significant amount of operational data for that hospital. When you start talking about a move to value-based care, I think one of the things that you hear in the industry is we don't have the data to actually do that because we're not tracking what's going on in that hospital. And now, you can. You can start finding out things like what really is my bed utilization? How often am I actually using some of these medical devices? Where are all my medical devices in my hospital? So just by having this connectivity platform, it does tie into both the clinical and the operational side of that hospital.
Steven Onzo: So on the surface, it sounds complicated. Especially to people who are just learning about this type of technology, DDS, may it be Connext. Is it difficult to use Connext DDS from a user experience standpoint?
David Niewolny: Well, I can say we definitely do our best to make sure it's easy to use as possible. I think the fundamental thinking it is. A slight different way of thinking in terms of most people when they're thinking of connectivity, they think of a broker-based messaging protocol. And that's really a fundamental difference from the way DDS works and the way we communicate. But really, the fact that we do it different with the shared data space and the databus model is really what's unique and allows us to be that foundational technology for these platforms of platforms. So that said, we understand that we're kind of coming from a place that is different than what people are used to. And because of that, we provide a wide variety of tools, demonstrations, video tutorials, we have a great web page all about getting started with RTI that actually has from the download of that software to getting one of our vertical market specific or application specific case and codes, which is kinda what we call a demonstration platform. So something someone can download and begin working with immediately. And then as I mentioned, the video tutorials of actually showing one of our either services or applications engineers working with the software. We have all of that from a web-based perspective.
In addition to that, I think we have some of the other common things that you see out there. A very robust community of support that's constantly being looked at by our own support team. And then lastly, I think it's just become commonplace for any good software company these days that we have a full featured services team. So depending on how much of that work you want to outsource or work with us on, we do have folks that are experts on our technology that are available to use a customer to really kind of extend the reach of your engineering team.
Steven Onzo: Right and the technology really is, like you said, a paradigm shift. It's different than what people are used to before. So it's great to have all these resources here because in order to really understand, you'd kinda want to just start off clean and let's figure out how this new model/architecture works.
David Niewolny: Yeah, that's exactly right. I mean, to comment on that a little bit further, I mean, if you're only making connectivity decisions once every, like I keep saying, 10, 15, maybe even 20 years, you need to have an architecture that is, to me, as future proof as possible. And I think the one just high level technology trend that most people are familiar with is just this trend from centralized computing, to edge computing, back to centralized computing, back to edge computing. I think it's even before my time, but there are main frame PCs where they did all the processing and then pretty soon it was the personal computer. And it was back to distributed. And then I feel like we started really taxing our personal computing devices that we needed to go back to much more of a data center kind of cloud centric model. The next big trend is going to be edge compute and that's really where this technology is gonna find its eventual home. I mean, that's really what the technology was designed for.
[31:35] Where do you see the industry going in the next 5-15 years?
Steven Onzo: This is also a good segue because I was gonna ask you where you see this industry going in the next five, 10, 15 years. And you did just talk about the industry, but how do you think RTI will play a role in that evolution?
David Niewolny: I guess I'll just elaborate kind of on some of the comments I just made. I mean, the future is definitely connected. And that's honestly not just something healthcare related. I mean, you can't not hear about the IoT. And I kinda joke about it in that I started my career in what we call the embedded systems. And now every embedded system has some sort of connectivity component, which means really embedded systems are now the IoT. And if you have all of these devices that are going to be connected and all of this data being sent to the cloud is just not a model that's set up for specifically autonomous systems. I mean, the latency of sending all of the sensor data to the cloud, and trying to make sense of it, and then sending the data back doesn't make sense. So that trend of edge computing is coming. I think it's coming for all industries. And healthcare is gonna be the one that, I guess in my mind arguably, is gonna have the most to benefit from it.
Steven Onzo: Right. Definitely a huge impact.
Well, as the conversation starts to wind down, David, I want to ask you one more question. Where can companies in healthcare find more information about Connext DDS?
David Niewolny: Well, good news is that's an easy one. We've actually just revamped our website. Added a bunch of new content. So I mean, I'd advise everybody. If it's something you're interested in learning a little bit more about, come to the website, www.RTI.com. And then within that, you can click on our industry page, healthcare. And within that, we have whitepapers, case studies. We have a variety of videos. We even have some sample code from the healthcare specific case and code. And then in terms of sub-applications, we do have a page on medical robotics, a page on medical imaging, and then some high level material on kind of the connected healthcare, healthcare IoT. And then just another plug for our getting started page. So if it's something that you definitely think you want to take a look at and begin learning, get to the getting started page. Download a copy of the latest Connext software which is probably likely Connext 6 when this goes out. And go to that getting started page. Watch some videos. And get up and running.
Steven Onzo: Excellent. Well, David, I want to thank you very much for coming on the podcast. This has been very insightful. Is there anything you want to leave us with today?
David Niewolny: I think I mentioned it earlier, but just to reiterate, I think there is gonna be a bunch of industries that are gonna be adopting IoT and IoT concepts. But the healthcare market is gonna be one that probably has one of the most profound impacts on our lives. And we really have the opportunity at RTI to improve patient care, make treatments more accessible, and more cost effective, and hopefully help generations, our own generation, and generations ongoing live longer than ever before. So it's really a fantastic time to be working in healthcare technology and at RTI.
Steven Onzo: Excellent. Well, once again, thank you very much for coming on the podcast. And for everybody tuning in, thank you for listening. We'll see you next time.